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	<title>Comments on: Useless Offday Thoughts: The ballpark, and third base</title>
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	<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/</link>
	<description>Mismanaging games since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: sirsean</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2838</link>
		<dc:creator>sirsean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2838</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;FunBobby&#039;s right about the valuation of a stat. Eventually teams will see the success of defense in Texas and Seattle, and start going after defensive wizards at the expense of their offense. The game will change a little bit.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And it will create another arbitrate situation where defense is valued too highly and some GM will realize he can get lumbering power hitters on the cheap all of a sudden. Hard to imagine now, I know, but that appears to be how these cycles work.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FunBobby&#8217;s right about the valuation of a stat. Eventually teams will see the success of defense in Texas and Seattle, and start going after defensive wizards at the expense of their offense. The game will change a little bit.</p>

<p>And it will create another arbitrate situation where defense is valued too highly and some GM will realize he can get lumbering power hitters on the cheap all of a sudden. Hard to imagine now, I know, but that appears to be how these cycles work.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sirsean</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2837</link>
		<dc:creator>sirsean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2837</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hitting and, indeed, &quot;clutch hitting&quot; are certainly more &lt;em&gt;visible&lt;/em&gt; than defense and from that standpoint is even disconnected from a player&#039;s position. Memories are built on walk off home runs, and big clutch hits to tie the game. I think it&#039;s much tougher for a &lt;em&gt;lasting&lt;/em&gt; memory to be built over the course of six months, by appreciating a guy&#039;s defensive contributions and trying to balance that against his obvious failings at the plate.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The way I like to look at it is this: each plate appearance, and each game, by itself, means nothing. All the plate appearances and all the games put together means everything.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The game is a lot larger than that one at bat you always daydreamed about when you were 10, win-or-lose in this moment. And in your dream you always win, and you idolize the players who do it in real life, who win the games at the end, who hit when it &quot;counts.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But you&#039;re not 10 any more, and it always counts. Do you get hyped up more than ever for every at bat, like it&#039;s football? Or do you relax more than you used to, accepting the games where we lose at the end because someone failed to come up with a hit in the 9th -- perhaps realizing that they turned a key double play in the top of the 9th that even got us to the situation where we could win or lose in that particular at bat? Or do you just continue to &quot;ignore&quot; (not the right word, probably) most of the game and focus highly on those win-or-lose moments, staying a casual fan?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s each person&#039;s choice. And there&#039;s no wrong answer. But I feel like when you&#039;re talking about who&#039;s the worst player, you&#039;re talking about their &quot;value to the team.&quot; And a player&#039;s value is a whole lot more than a counter of the times they came through in the 9th inning.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hitting and, indeed, &#8220;clutch hitting&#8221; are certainly more <em>visible</em> than defense and from that standpoint is even disconnected from a player&#8217;s position. Memories are built on walk off home runs, and big clutch hits to tie the game. I think it&#8217;s much tougher for a <em>lasting</em> memory to be built over the course of six months, by appreciating a guy&#8217;s defensive contributions and trying to balance that against his obvious failings at the plate.</p>

<p>The way I like to look at it is this: each plate appearance, and each game, by itself, means nothing. All the plate appearances and all the games put together means everything.</p>

<p>The game is a lot larger than that one at bat you always daydreamed about when you were 10, win-or-lose in this moment. And in your dream you always win, and you idolize the players who do it in real life, who win the games at the end, who hit when it &#8220;counts.&#8221;</p>

<p>But you&#8217;re not 10 any more, and it always counts. Do you get hyped up more than ever for every at bat, like it&#8217;s football? Or do you relax more than you used to, accepting the games where we lose at the end because someone failed to come up with a hit in the 9th &#8212; perhaps realizing that they turned a key double play in the top of the 9th that even got us to the situation where we could win or lose in that particular at bat? Or do you just continue to &#8220;ignore&#8221; (not the right word, probably) most of the game and focus highly on those win-or-lose moments, staying a casual fan?</p>

<p>It&#8217;s each person&#8217;s choice. And there&#8217;s no wrong answer. But I feel like when you&#8217;re talking about who&#8217;s the worst player, you&#8217;re talking about their &#8220;value to the team.&#8221; And a player&#8217;s value is a whole lot more than a counter of the times they came through in the 9th inning.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: FunBobby</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2836</link>
		<dc:creator>FunBobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2836</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think we are seeing a huge shift in opinions on that subject now.  While before last year, defense was largely ignored but last year the Rays improved their defense by a lot and went to the world series, this year Seattle got a lot better on defense, and while they won&#039;t make the playoffs, they are a vastly improved team.  Sames goes for Texas, except they might make the playoffs. Seattle&#039;s new OF defense is basically the sole reason Jarrod Washburn was so good for the first half. Just like OBP because a popular stat a few years ago with moneyball and what not, I think we are seeing the same thing happen with defense.  and once it becomes overvalued like OBP did, we will move on to another obscure stat that some GM thinks is undervalued.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we are seeing a huge shift in opinions on that subject now.  While before last year, defense was largely ignored but last year the Rays improved their defense by a lot and went to the world series, this year Seattle got a lot better on defense, and while they won&#8217;t make the playoffs, they are a vastly improved team.  Sames goes for Texas, except they might make the playoffs. Seattle&#8217;s new OF defense is basically the sole reason Jarrod Washburn was so good for the first half. Just like OBP because a popular stat a few years ago with moneyball and what not, I think we are seeing the same thing happen with defense.  and once it becomes overvalued like OBP did, we will move on to another obscure stat that some GM thinks is undervalued.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ragstoriches</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2835</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragstoriches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2835</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah I mean I understand your point (ha ha Funbobby!) but to me clutch hitting and just hitting in general is what defines a valuable player way more than defense and whatnot.  Just my opinion, don&#039;t rip my head off, I don&#039;t have any numbers I&#039;m just speaking as a casual fan.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I mean I understand your point (ha ha Funbobby!) but to me clutch hitting and just hitting in general is what defines a valuable player way more than defense and whatnot.  Just my opinion, don&#8217;t rip my head off, I don&#8217;t have any numbers I&#8217;m just speaking as a casual fan.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sirsean</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2834</link>
		<dc:creator>sirsean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2834</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Kendall&#039;s probably the better hitter to have out there (awfully close to a wash, though) ... but wouldn&#039;t that mean Mauer&#039;s not playing that day? Isn&#039;t that a whole lot worse than whichever you&#039;d have to choose between Punto and Kendall?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Or are we just going by hitting and ignoring defense and position entirely? Because, you know, that&#039;s not what I&#039;ve been doing this whole time. And on a baseball team, defense and positions are pretty important.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I mean, I&#039;d absolutely rather have Jermaine Dye batting with the game on the line than Punto ... but Dye doesn&#039;t play shortstop. He plays right field, badly. So while Dye&#039;s value is higher &lt;em&gt;in that plate appearance&lt;/em&gt;, Punto&#039;s is higher &lt;em&gt;over the course of the season&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kendall&#8217;s probably the better hitter to have out there (awfully close to a wash, though) &#8230; but wouldn&#8217;t that mean Mauer&#8217;s not playing that day? Isn&#8217;t that a whole lot worse than whichever you&#8217;d have to choose between Punto and Kendall?</p>

<p>Or are we just going by hitting and ignoring defense and position entirely? Because, you know, that&#8217;s not what I&#8217;ve been doing this whole time. And on a baseball team, defense and positions are pretty important.</p>

<p>I mean, I&#8217;d absolutely rather have Jermaine Dye batting with the game on the line than Punto &#8230; but Dye doesn&#8217;t play shortstop. He plays right field, badly. So while Dye&#8217;s value is higher <em>in that plate appearance</em>, Punto&#8217;s is higher <em>over the course of the season</em>.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: FunBobby</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2833</link>
		<dc:creator>FunBobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2833</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If forced to choose between Kendall and Punto I choose death.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If forced to choose between Kendall and Punto I choose death.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sportsgal32</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2832</link>
		<dc:creator>Sportsgal32</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2832</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah my credibility is really taking a hit here in this anonymous website comment section.  How devastating.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah my credibility is really taking a hit here in this anonymous website comment section.  How devastating.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sirsean</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2831</link>
		<dc:creator>sirsean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2831</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Keep putting words in my mouth. It makes you look great.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep putting words in my mouth. It makes you look great.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sportsgal32</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2830</link>
		<dc:creator>Sportsgal32</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2830</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So now we&#039;re idiots for enjoying other websites.  My deepest apologies sir.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So now we&#8217;re idiots for enjoying other websites.  My deepest apologies sir.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sirsean</title>
		<link>http://firegardy.com/2009/08/27/useless-offday-thoughts-the-ballpark-and-third-base/comment-page-1/#comment-2829</link>
		<dc:creator>sirsean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firegardy.com/?p=796#comment-2829</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s funny that you&#039;d accuse &lt;em&gt;me&lt;/em&gt; of demanding that you agree with me and accepting no other argument. I mean, given that I&#039;ve been the one actually making arguments that back up a point, and everyone else has just been repeating the old mantra, &quot;I don&#039;t like Nick Punto because he sucks, and anyone who disagrees obviously doesn&#039;t know anything about baseball.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I do, of course, encourage people to attempt to debate if they want to, but I think it&#039;s pretty clear that I have absolutely no tolerance for that type of idiocy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But by all means, if you need someone to smile at you while you furrow your brow in a vain attempt to understand, go to the re-education center. It&#039;ll make you feel good and they&#039;ll tell you that you&#039;re &lt;em&gt;trying hard&lt;/em&gt; even if you put in no effort to actually understand new things. Just like in junior high! Woo!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s funny that you&#8217;d accuse <em>me</em> of demanding that you agree with me and accepting no other argument. I mean, given that I&#8217;ve been the one actually making arguments that back up a point, and everyone else has just been repeating the old mantra, &#8220;I don&#8217;t like Nick Punto because he sucks, and anyone who disagrees obviously doesn&#8217;t know anything about baseball.&#8221;</p>

<p>I do, of course, encourage people to attempt to debate if they want to, but I think it&#8217;s pretty clear that I have absolutely no tolerance for that type of idiocy.</p>

<p>But by all means, if you need someone to smile at you while you furrow your brow in a vain attempt to understand, go to the re-education center. It&#8217;ll make you feel good and they&#8217;ll tell you that you&#8217;re <em>trying hard</em> even if you put in no effort to actually understand new things. Just like in junior high! Woo!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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